William Dimes

  General Notes:

2 Mar 1803 apprenticed to Charles Clapham Price of Banner Street, Middlesex, goldsmith. William lived at City Road.
6 Feb 1811 made a freeman of the goldsmiths company. Lived at York Place, City Road.

An extract from www.oldbaileyonline.org

Trial Summary:
Crime(s): theft : simple grand larceny
Punishment Type: imprisonment
Verdict: Guilty
Original Text:
511. CATHERINE M'CABE was indicted for stealing, on the 28th of January, 1 table-spoon, value 10s. 6d.; 1 hat, value 4s.; 1 pair of boots, value 5s.; 1 child's coat, value 4s.; 4 handkerchiefs, value 2s.; 1 shift, value 2s. 6d.; 1 night-gown, value 1s.; 1 pair of stockings, value 6d., and 1 napkin, value 6d. , the goods of William Dimes .
WILLIAM DIMES. I am Assayer to the Goldsmiths' Company. On Saturday, the 28th of January, between one and two o'clock, I was in the office, below where I live, and some persons gave me information - I went into my parlour - my wife, who was very ill, and lying on the sofa, said "The girls think there is a woman in the house;" immediately the girl said "Here she is;" and I saw the prisoner pass from the kitchen - she had come in at the lobby, and then through a private door, came up to the part of the house which I occupy; she was a perfect stranger to me, but I saw her dropping a number of things out of her apron under a table - they are now here. I took hold of her, and asked what she did there; she said"Oh, the gentleman, the gentleman;" she then said"Here is your property; I am a poor woman in distress - <http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1820s/182602160073.html>
See original <http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1820s/182602160073.html>I have got nothing;" I then sent for an officer, and when he came he proceeded to search her - a silver table-spoon dropped from her person.
ELIZA SMITH . I am the prosecutor's daughter-in-law - I live with him. I heard a gentle knock at the street-door, and then I heard the door open; I conclunded that my sister, who was in the parlour, would open the door; I went just afterwards towards the kitchen and saw the glimpse of a person in a white shawl, and a straw bonnet; I then went and asked my mother if any person was in the kitchen; I then went out and saw her going up stairs; I immediately called for Mr. Dimes, and gave her a push into the kitchen. The property she took was up stairs in the bed-room.
WILLIAM SHEPHERD . I am the officer. I have had the property ever since.(Property produced and sworn to.)
COURT to Mr. DIMES. Q. Could she have got to your rooms from the public stair-case? A. Yes, by opening a private door which leads to the stairs.
Prisoner's Defence. It is very false - I had no property about me - I walked in and this gentleman came and took me - the spoon that he said dropped from me was lying on the floor.
GUILTY . Aged 61.
Confined Two Years .

And also from www.olsbaileyonline.org where William was a witness

PHILIBERT MATHEY, deception : forgery, 26th October, 1826.
The Proceedings of the Old Bailey Ref: t18261026-237
<http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1820s/182610260107.html>
See original <http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1820s/182610260107.html>
Trial Summary:
Crime(s): deception : forgery
Punishment Type: transportation
Verdict: Guilty
Original Text:
FIFTH DAY. TUESDAY, OCTOBER 31.
Third Middlesex Jury - Before Mr. Sergeant Arabin.
2028. PHILIBERT MATHEY was indicted for that he on the 28th of June, feloniously did sell to Benjamin Lewis Valliamy , a piece of wroughplate of gold, called a watch-case, with a certainmark thereon of a crown, with the figures 18 instead of the mark of the Lion-passant, made with a skimp <http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1820s/182610260108.html>
See original <http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1820s/182610260108.html>(used in pursuance of the statute) made by the Company of Goldsmiths, in London, to mark gold-plate, made and wrought of the standard of 18 carats of fine gold in every pound weight troy, which mark had been then before transposed, and removed from a certain other piece of wrought plate of gold, called a watch-case, he knowing that the said mark had been transposed and removed thereon, from the said other piece of wrought plate of gold, called a watch-case, against the statute .
FOUR other Counts varying the manner of laying the charge.
MESSRS. ALLEY and LAW conducted the prosecution.
WILLIAM DIMES . I am one of the Assayers at Goldsmith's-hall. On the 11th of January, Frederick Humbert and the prisoner came there to enter their mark as partners - they signed their names, and their mark was F. H. and P. M. - I saw them sign their names, and they brought this stamp with them, on which we make an impression, and return it to them; they keep it; and from that mark, we know the plate that comes from them - we never stamp any gold which comes without the manufacturer's stamp, but detain it - they also send two tickets, stating the weight and description of the articles they send, with their name and address.
JEREMIAH FULLER . I belong to Goldsmith's-hall. On the 23d of June, I received three gold-cases and two dials; they were two double-bottoms, one single case, and two dials - two tickets came with them - here is one of the tickets; the cases were marked with the prisoner's mark - two of the cases came in the morning; we take a receipt when they have any property back - here is the receipt we had that day.
WILLIAM DIMES . To the best of my knowledge and belief, this receipt is the prisoner's writing.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Did you ever see him write, except when he put his name in the book? A. No; I stood by him at that time; I could not decide without a comparison - I have not received many tickets from him - I am in the habit of referring to his signature daily; I do not think I should be enabled to decide, that this is his writing without a comparison.
JEREMIAH FULLER re-examined. Q. Have you communicated with the prisoner on his writing? A. No; I have received these notes from him. On the 23d of June I weighed the plate sent to me, and delivered it to Mr. City, the market - he assayed them, and I delivered the cases to the prisoner's porter, who was in the continual habit of bringing things from him - on the 26th of June, I received two more cases by that porter, and Mr. City had them detained.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Did you ever see the prisoner in company with that porter? A. No; I only knew him as bringing things, which he represented were the prisoner's.
COURT. Q. Did the porter bring plate, which had the prisoner's mark on it, to have the hall-mark put on it? A. Yes.
Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Do you know whether that man was porter to any other house? A. No; the stamp might have been in the possession of other persons - all I know is what that porter told me, and by the mark - the prisoner's mark was the only mark he brought.
WILLIAM CITY . I am a drawer in the Assayer's-office, on the 23d of June I received from Mr. Fuller two double bottoms, one single case, and two dials; I drew them for the Assayer, and stamped them, and put several private marks on the wires and on the bottoms; I then gave them to Mr. Fuller, they had the initials of Mathey and Humbert on them. On the 26th I received one double-bottom case, and on examining it I found the wires of it had come on the 23d, but they had had other bottoms attached to them, they had got my private marks on them, and they were detained. I went with two officers to the prisoner's house, in Hyde-street, Bloomsbury, on the 27th of June; I found the prisoner there, dressed like the other men; I did not know him at that time; there was only one man there who had not his working dress on; I first asked for them to deliver up all the cases in the shop whatever state they were in. Some person in the shop showed me a tin box with several parts of watches in it, the prisoner was present, and conversed with me; I found in the tin box these three wires and these two loose bottoms, they have all my private mark on them, which I had put on them on the 23d - I then asked the prisoner to deliver up his books, and they were produced. I found in the book an entry of a watch-case sold to Mr. Vulliamy, in Pall-mall, and I said to the prisoner, "This is booked on the 28th, and this day is only the 27th," the prisoner said, "I know it, I have made that mistake;" he said he had sent it that morning to them, and had made that mistake. I then went to Mr. Vulliamy's, who was out of town - Mr. Thompson there produced to me a double-bottomed case, marked by the Company; the bottoms have got my private mark on them, but the wires have not. When those bottoms had come to me at the Hall, they had come in other wires, and I have not the smallest doubt that they had been transposed from them. I have compared the bottoms found at Vulliamy's with the wires found at the prisoner's, they have all got my private mark on them, and correspond exactly in all respects; here is a bill of parcels which Mr. Vulliamy delivered at the office - I have not said any thing to the prisoner about this bill; the outer bottom has the crown and F. No. 18 in the centre of it, on the left the leopard's head, and on the right the veriable letter denoting the year, which in this case is an I, and over in the maker's private mark; the middle bottoms have a crown and 18, and over it the stamp of the maker; it is what is called a double-bottomed hunter; the bottoms have my private mark, but not the wires; the three wires which I did mark were all found at the prisoner's.
Cross-examined by MR. BRODRICK. Q. When the cases are sent to you, are they in a complete state? A. They have only to be polished; the cases always fit the watches before they come there to be marked; I know that is invariably the case from being brought up to the business. The prisoner is a foreigner; he speaks broken English; I saw him at the office the next day - I do not know that he has a brother there; I am sure it was the prisoner who spoke to me; I had some difficulty to understand him, but I am quite sure I did understand him; when I stated, "This is a mistake, this is entered the 28th, and this is but the 27th," his answer was, "I made a mistake." I will not swear positively whether he said, "The case has been sent to Mr. Vulliamy's," or "I have sent it." The rims are not in all cases marked with the hall-mark, but they are sometimes, they have my <http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1820s/182610260109.html>
See original <http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1820s/182610260109.html>private mark on, which I cannot describe, because it would defent my purpose, but it is such a mark as would not be removed by polishing, nor without destroying the case. When I went to the shop, the prisoner and three others were in their working dress, and one not in a working dress.
ANDREW THOMPSON . I am foreman to Mr. Vulliamy, of Pall-mall; I have been there twelve years; during the life of Mr. Humbert my master dealt with him, then with the prisoner and him, and since his death with the prisoner only; I once saw the prisoner at work at Hyde-street, Bloomsbury; I have seen him there several times; I cannot tell when Mr. Humbert died; he left England several months ago, and I think has been dead about two months; I am certain he left England before June; I recollect Mr. City calling on me on the 27th of June; he asked for a case, I showed him one which I had received a bill of parcels with - this is the bill, I marked it at the time; I believe it is the prisoner's hand-writing, but I have never seen him write - I have received this hand-writing with things that came from his house.
COURT. Q. In the course of business you have dealt upon this hand-writing? A. We have no occasion for any writing but bills of parcels - they were in this writing; I have no doubt whatever it came from the prisoner.
MR. LAW. Q. I believe you made some hesitation is delivering them, and you gave them up at the office? A. Yes; I received the bill and the case from an crrand-man, who is employed by us and by others; he has been employed in bringing work from the prisoner to us for about a month - I cannot identify the prisoner's work individually, but the case is made in the same way that we order work to be made by that house; though the errand-man had only brought work from the prisoner about a month, I had known him eighteen months, his name is Nicholas.
Cross-examined by MR. BRODRICK. Q. You say this is similar work to what you have received from Humbert's house for ten years past? A. No, the fashions vary, but it has been nearly similar to this for the last four or five years - it is such work as was made by Mr. Humbert's workmen before the prisoner came to this country; I cannot tell whose hand-writing this is; it might be made out by a clerk, but it is the same writing as comes from that house; the porter was employed by four other persons to my knowledge, and he might be by other persons; I took the case in myself from him, and partly opened it, and put it into a drawer; I can undertake to say that I showed the same case afterwards; three or four other persons might have access to the drawer, but I do not think they had; I put a watch into the case, and I could identify that botter than the case. I did not particularly examine this case; I examined one that came with it; no person has any right to go to that drawer but Mr. Vulliamy and myself; I believe the case I took to the office was the one I showed to Mr. City, I believe so from finding it in the drawer where I put it after he looked at it; ever since the illness of Mr. Humbert, we have uniformly received bills in this hand-writing.
GEORGE MILES . I am senior Assayer at Goldsmith's-hall, and have made assays of these bottoms and rings which came from Mr. Vullamy's; the rings are about 9s. or 10s. an ounce inferior to the bottoms.
The entry in the book and the bill of parcels were read as follows:- "June 28th, No. 24, a hunting case, double bottom." - 12l. 18s.
COURT. Q. Not only the date, but the article and the amount correspond in the book and on the bill? A. Yes.
WILLIAM REED . I am a constable of Hatton-garden. I was applied to from Goldsmith's-hall to go to the prisoner in Hyde-street; while we were taking him to the office he asked what he was taken for? I said, "I suppose you know more about it than we do, for we seldom have such things," he said, "For lowering gold?" I did not know the prisoner myself, but I believe he told his name to Mr. City.
Cross-examined by MR. BRODRICK. Q. He spoke in broken English? A. Yes - I will not swear he said,"Was it for lowering gold," or "I suppose it is for lowering gold;" he said, "What am I taken for;" I said,"You know more than we." and he said, "I suppose for lowering gold," or "for lowering gold."
ANDREW LLOYD . I ansisted in taking the prisoner - I found him in his working dress - he asked what he was taken for; Reed said, "You know more than we do;" he said, in broken English, "I suppose lowering gold;" he did not say, "Is it for lowering gold?" he said, "I suppose for lowering gold;" or "For lowering gold."
The prisoner put in a written defence, stating, that the watch-case in question was never made by him; that he had been a good deal absent from his ship and left the management to a foreman, who had now left him, and could not be found.
SAMUEL QUENDY . I was in the employ of Mr. Humbert, but since his death I have been employed by the prisoner - there was a workman in his shop of the name of Fotex - he worked there three weeks, and left a day or two after the apprehension of the prisoner; the prisoner's brother, who is here, told me of an order for a watch-case coming from Mr. Vulliamy's; I do not know whether it was executed; accidents often happen in finishing cases: the workmen often correct them without the master's knowledge; the prisoner was out collecting bills just before his apprehension; it was near quarter-day, and he had been out for several days, very often from nine o'clock in the morning; if not then, he went at three o'clock, after dinner; he was not particular to the hour of returning - generally when he went out, he left orders with his brother, whose business was to melt the gold - he had a brother, named Justine Mathey - he was an apprentice - in consequence of his doing work imperfectly, it was often necessary to re-melt the gold.
COURT. Q. Do you mean to say that the prisoner did not work at the business himself, and wear a workingdress when at home? A. No - he worked with his own hamls.
JUSTINE MATDEY . I am the prisoner's brother, and was employed as a workman by him. It was my department to melt the gold for cases; I remember the order for a gold watch-case for Mr. Vulliamy; I melted the gold on the 21st of June, and delivered it to Potex to make.
MR. LAW. Q. Did you deliver the gold bottom on the 27th, which had been stamped on the 23d? A. I do not know; I do not know whether that was sent to be stamped on the 23d.
<http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1820s/182610260110.html>
See original <http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/facsimiles/1820s/182610260110.html>COURT. Q. Are the Goldsmith's-hall to be marked, unless they are finished? A. No.
JOSEPH FORRESTER . I live in Princes-street, Bridgewater-square, and am a watch-maker. I gave orders to the prisoner, about the 20th of June, for a gold watch-case to be enamelled - it was for what we call a red enamel, and the gold ought to be of a high colour to take that enamel; I do not know that it was necessary to detach the rings from the case to make it of that colour; I saw a case at the prisoner's on the Saturday before he was apprehended; I understood it was the one made for me, but the rim was too pale; it was not of the colour for that enamel, and it was detached from the bottom; I saw it, but I never got my order from them; I never saw a case of that description before.
MR. LAW. Q. And what is there to prevent the rim and case being attached again? A. Nothing - they take the rim off and alter it, but I suppose it is put on again.
COURT. Q. I take it for granted you ordered the case of a particular description to have a red enamel? A. Yes- the rims I saw, I think had not been marked at the hall - the bottom had - there was a mark on the bottom.
GUILTY . Aged 22.
Transported for Seven Years .
The prisoner, being a foreigner, had the evidence communicated to him by an interpreter.

William married Isabella Warner on 7 Nov 1809 in St. Andrew, Holborn, London. (Isabella Warner was born in 1787 and was buried on 4 Nov 1813 in Bunhill Fields burial ground.)

William next married Henrietta Smith on 14 Apr 1819 in St. Luke, Middlesex, London, England. (Henrietta Smith was born about 1790 and was buried on 28 May 1826 in St. John Zachary, City of London.)